For the National Geographic Experience, the wave tank at the Faculty of Engineering - Bilbao and the Mutriku wave energy plant, which generates energy from waves, were selected. What was the main interest or attraction in choosing them?

PEREIRA: I’m very interested in the Basque coast because of its historical connection with the sea; because of the way in which the idea of the sea as a liquid frontier was never applied because the people grew accustomed to exploiting the sea. Over the last 20 years, the Basque coast has also been undergoing transformation into a practical, natural yet technical lab for applying technology. This idea of a coastline with traditional purposes that is slowly being transformed into a lab is hugely interesting.

The again, the National Geographic Experiences offer the chance to put a face to the scientific community. This new generation of scientists is in a league of its own; they think on a European scale, are already on a par with the best in Europe, and it’s good for people to put a face to them and learn with them. This experience gives visitors the chance not only to see, but also to experience things in situ. It is tremendously exciting to be able to apply this experience to the field of wave energy.

There is one last, more personal, reason: at the start of the 21st century, an attempt was made in the Azores to build the first wave energy plant. The experience failed. Within two years it was demolished by the sea. As a science journalist, it made me very sceptical. Until the last decade, I had always thought that wave power wasn’t really part of the energy mix. And this Mutriku project and the Faculty of Engineering – Bilbao has helped to change my perception. Over the past 10 months, we have learnt that this country’s energy mix needs to be as diversified as possible; wave energy must also be taken into consideration in this equation.

The Mutriku plant came into operation in 2011, and was the first commercial power station in Europe to generate electricity using this form of energy. Small-scale research into this infrastructure is being carried out in the wave tank at the Faculty of Engineering – Bilbao. Tell us about the work being carried out in the two initiatives.

BLANCO-ILZARBE: About 10 or 12 years ago, we began studying wave energy at the Fluid Mechanics Laboratory. We decided to build a wave generator to collaborate with companies in the sector, which were calling for infrastructure designed not for teaching but for research. We are currently working with prototypes to analyse various aspects, such as the stability of floating offshore structures (including offshore wind turbines, offshore solar photovoltaic installations, etc.), chains, moorings, connections, and points of contact with the seabed, etc.

We are also working to redesign the chambers of the Mutriku power plant. The technology has come a long way since then. Right now, the Mutriku wave energy plant has 11 operational turbines that generate a significant amount of energy: they produce a steady 300,000 kWh, which is no mean amount. It is regarded as a living laboratory for the industry. Mutriku is recognised throughout Europe.

«We need to explain the pathways towards an energy transition, because apathy is just as bad as ignorance»

What is more, we work with prototypes to improve the water dynamics inside the chambers and increase energy production. We also conduct scaled-up tests that can be replicated for any type of wave in the world. We programme different wave parameters into our generator blade and can observe the effects they produce. These studies have led to patents filed with various institutions.

Blanco-Ilzarbe is doing outstanding work in protecting marine nature as a result of the initiative to grant legal rights to the Cantabrian Sea, in conjunction with the United Nations “Harmony with Nature” programme. What do you think about this proposal?

PEREIRA: The granting of legal rights to a river to assist in its conservation made the cover of National Geographic in January 2021. This concept of attributing to an ecosystem not only the capacity to be a source of resources but also of recognizing it as a living system is an inspiring idea from a philosophical standpoint; because it is only right that we view it in this way, not merely as a source of materials. It is more than that, from an ethical standpoint, and also as a contribution for future generations.

What is more, this concept is particularly interesting for shifting the public discourse on conservation: in areas where ecosystems are under pressure —especially marine ecosystems—the public debate focuses on overexploitation, never on what will become of this ecosystem in 50 years’ time. The idea of granting legal personhood to an ecosystem fits in very well with what National Geographic is trying to bring to the conservation discourse. We have seen that outdated approaches, based on No-go areas (where those areas were simply left untouched and kept as pristine as possible), no longer hold water as a concept. We need to go further. I'm really excited by the fact that the Cantabrian region is the first in the Iberian Peninsula to benefit from this status.

 The sea offers us scenes of spectacular beauty and, at the same time, it is an enormous natural resource. Could we say that the power of the waves in the Cantabrian Sea has great appeal, not only from a photojournalistic perspective but also as a source of renewable energy?

PEREIRA: Absolutely. I like the idea of a testing ground lab for experiments. But there is a dimension that precedes this beauty of pure power. At least here on the northern coast of the peninsula. I would say that the sea has been the poor relation in the great debate on nature conservation for much of the 20th century. We’ve focused on land-based protected areas, but we’ve been slow to address marine areas. And at the same time, the degradation of natural values is worse at sea than on land. So we have this paradox: in the Cantabrian Sea we still have a fairly healthy ecosystem of untamed, wild beauty, yet at the same time we can use it as a testing ground for sustainable initiatives that seek viable, green, and environmentally sound alternatives. I see the Cantabrian as the perfect testing ground.

Given the global conflict we are facing and its direct link with the current energy crisis, what contribution can technological innovation and scientific knowledge make in this strategic area of renewable energy?

BLANCO-ILZARBE: We have incredible potential. Much of our planet is covered by the sea. If we know how to make good use of offshore energy, we will be able to reduce our dependence on geostrategically unstable systems. I don’t think it’s a good idea to base our energy supply on situations that are strategically difficult to predict, because that leads to uncertainty, whereas we have the sea right on our doorstep from which we can draw some of that energy and reduce that dependence. Northern Europe is highly developed in offshore renewable energy. They realise that this capacity of the sea reduces their dependence on other countries. In the Cantabrian Sea we have a very good situation. We must make the most of it. We need to learn about it, understand it, and see what it has to offer. And we’re gaining a better understanding of it all the time, thanks to technology, research, etc.

You have written several books on the history of journalism and how new technological and climate-related risks are reported. As the director of a globally recognised media organisation and a journalist, do you feel a responsibility to contribute to the energy transition and to a more sustainable society?

PEREIRA: Absolutely. The international media have failed in the great energy debate. They have failed because they have applied the principles of objectivity, which we have always put into practice, to that global conversation. Until the end of the 1990s, any debate on this subject (in the USA, in particular) always meant that we had to find one expert on renewables and another on fossil fuels, as if the balance lay somewhere in between. But there is no logic in that. There is more than enough information —indeed, an abundance of it— showing that there is an imbalance in the climate system and that fossil fuels are finite, which will compel the seeking of renewable solutions. The solution lies in renewable energy, so any international media outlet needs to frame the discussion differently. The debate cannot be balanced between fossil fuels and renewables; it will have to centre on which renewable solutions are suitable for each country.

«The international media have failed in the great energy debate»

In Central Europe, we are heavily reliant on fossil fuels, and that needs to be changed. We need to push for as wide a range of options as possible. The nuclear debate always emerges with this issue. The magazine and society do not officially have a stance on nuclear power. If you ask me, I can give you my opinion: with a few possible exceptions, such as France, I can’t see any reason why nuclear power should be applied in the Iberian Peninsula again. I can't see any. And we find ourselves at a moment of investment and knowledge accumulated in academia. A 60% share of renewable energy in the energy mix can be easily achieved. And it can be increased even further. I don’t think there’s any need to push for nuclear power.

As a journalist, I’d like to highlight something else we’ve done wrong: most of the articles written 10 years ago were exposés about how the system is out of balance, how there will be a shortage of oil, gas, etc. But the other side of this kind of conversation is to put forward solutions. And this is where university and academic knowledge come in. If you don’t put forward solutions, if you don’t show what can be done, what is currently being done, and other ways of developing solutions, you won’t succeed. If there is, in fact, a desire to change the status quo, as a journalist I believe it is our responsibility to put forward solutions. I’m not suggesting we should gloss over the problem, but we need to explain the pathways, because apathy is just as bad as ignorance.